Tuesday, June 1, 2010

Destroyer rideth upon the waters

A study by the Harvard Business School has concluded that government spending does not stimulate an economy.  It stifles.  You can read the study here:
This was not the conclusion the study was expected to produce.  It is not a welcomed study during a time when the whole commitment of the federal policy is predicated upon the opposite conclusion.  Simply put, we're pursuing a course that won't/can't work.
It shows again, how foolish it is to trust in the opinions of men.  I'm utterly convinced that opinions are misleading.  I believe the scriptures counsel against using opinions as a basis for determining truth.
The Great Whore, which deceives the world, sits upon "many waters."  (Rev. 17: 1.)  The definition of "waters" is given in verse 15.  (Rev. 17: 15.)  These unstable waters are the "peoples, and multitudes, and nations."  It is again a reminder of the original blessing given to Reuben, in which instability is compared to "water."  (Gen. 49: 4.)  Great wars, overflowing armies and unstable political movements have all been compared to a flood of water.  (See, e.g., Isa. 28: 2; Jer. 46: 8.)
Opinions of peoples, multitudes and nations are as "unstable as water."  They flow, and ebb and move about in dangerous currents.  Finding an opinion and adopting it as the basis for a church decision or policy is a study in learning which cannot bring you to the truth.  (2 Tim. 3: 7.)
Before this latest study, it was common wisdom that government spending was NEEDED in order to combat the recession.  Now, it appears the solution will only mire the country in a more prolonged downward economic cycle.  Opinions were gathered carefully before the commitment was made.  Now, we have accepted only foolishness as our wisdom.

I have always thought the tools of industry have no place in a church which claims to be guided by inspiration.  To the extent the church elects to employ opinion polling and focus group gathering to inform its decision, it will reach the wrong conclusions, make the wrong decisions, and go backward.

Inspiration does not lie within the opinions of the great and unstable waters.  Indeed, the Destroyer rides upon the waters.  (D&C 61: 19.)


  1. Gives interesting perspective to the beast John described "rising up out of the sea."

    Rev 13:

    1 And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.

  2. I never make comments, although I have read every blog and all six books. I could write an essay regarding each blog and its positive effect on me. The blogs touching on the Salt Lake City ordinance have been especially appreciated, as I was deeply confused when that incident occurred as it countered all my understanding of constitutional as well as moral law. I wondered why my rights as an individual property owner or business owner were not worthy of protection, while the Church still wanted to gaurantee that they retained those rights to operate according to their beliefs(they can still not hire based on sexual orientation and have housing restrictions at BYU, etc). I couldn't understand the double standard. Your insights helps me not be "troubled" in mind and spirit in a destructive way.

    This particular blog reminded me of how I teach my children that if a concept, idea, fad, etc. is very popular and well received by people...that popularity should be their first "red flag" that they should run from it. Very rarely is real truth accepted, popular and well received by the whole.

    Lastly, as I read the accompanying scriptures you cited, I was very intrigued with the verses in Isaiah that followed your chosen verse. Specifically verses 5-7. It has been several years since I read "Nephi's Isaiah"...do you address these verses there? I did a brief search and couldn't find it. What is the "wine" and "strong drink"? I read once (can't remember where) that perhaps these were symbols of money. Who are the priest and the prophet spoken of (v.7) and the "tables" in v.8. I would love to know a source that could help me study this out or if you have any insight.


  3. I found the following talk on lds.org. It was given in 1989. I have not known about the church taking polls and such until reading it on this blog. My question is: Is this a recent activity of the church? I can't really find any info on it anywhere. Glenn Pace seemed to think in 1989 that we did not do so as a church. As he said there are many church's succumbing to this. Are we becoming one of them? I agree that adopting the opinion of a poll, as a church stance is not revelation. I wonder where they are trying to go with this.

    Follow the Prophet
    Glenn L. Pace

    A prophet doesn’t take a poll to see which way the wind of public opinion is blowing. The world is full of deteriorating churches who have succumbed to public opinion and have become more dedicated to tickling the ears of their members than obeying the laws of God.

    Gospel Library > Magazines > Ensign > May 1989

  4. The first thing that came to mind reading this is that the men at Harvard are just as much flesh as those who deemed the government spending as good, are they not?

    To my limited understanding, in issues like these I simply see two teams debating the stacked evidence why "heads" or "tails" has greater odds of winning the coin toss. (As Denver has pointed out, the Lord has done things by lots in the past, but that's another topic.) Each team thinks they "know" and can prove how things will turn out, contention builds, lines in the sand are drawn, but until we have Delorians equipped with flux capacitors or until the Spirit guides all of our decisions, it's really only educated guesswork at best. Sometimes choices will turn out well, sometimes they won't.

    What saddens me is what tends to happen between the teams once the coin lands, and I think that's the real test. (Perhaps accurately calling the toss is even irrelevant?) We tend to forget we're all human, and choose to become increasingly contentious with each new issue. Talk show hosts and news pundits only serve to fan the flames, heralding opinions as information, and reaping followers in the millions. In this furnace that is becoming only hotter, I wonder if division of wheat and tares is to begin?

    I think the real test isn't whether A or B guesses right, but in how we choose to respond, to both the proposals and the results. It's not what we endure, it's how we endure it.

    Will we adopt contention as our spirit, as has become the status quo? Do we rip apart our country, our community, and even our families as we pretend in our pride to know that which we don't, and increasingly mistreat those who think differently?

    Or do we adopt charity? Do we accept that we're all flawed, forgive the shortcomings and wrongdoing of ourselves and others, and seek to move forward in the spirit of charity? I think this also ties in very well with a previous article Denver wrote.

    I'm finding that contention, pride, and judgment are sneaky and wily spirits, using the power of justification to try and lead me carefully down to hell. This world, with its many issues like those presented in this article, is truly is a perfect testing ground. It gives me a lot to think about.

  5. Denver,

    Once again you nail it down tight.

    I have felt this for years - but have never been able to artfully articulate what you just laid out. Your clarity is breathtaking.

  6. Maybe that is why I didn't get that job I applied for in the church's research statistical department. The Lord didn't want me in all that unstable water. :0)

  7. Karen,

    An excellent commentary on Isaiah 28 is found in the book called "The Book of Isaiah with Interpretive Keys from the Book of Mormon" by Avraham Gileadi. He defines the wine as self-deception, and elaborates in a wonderful way from there.

    His commentary is available at isaiahprophecy.com also, for free.


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