To put Alma's teachings into a larger perspective you need to understand the pre-earth life. The "picture" you have in your head about that is quite skewed. I've tried to unravel it and reconstruct the correct picture in a 42 page long paper. Because of it's length, it is not appropriate to post it here. However, I am willing to let readers have a copy. It is copyrighted to prevent it from being changed and then attributed to me in an altered form. I am willing to be accountable for every word I speak, write or even think. I am not, however, willing to be accountable for what you think I said, think I wrote, or interpret on your own. Therefore it is copyrighted to prevent an alteration from becoming attributed to me.
If you want a copy, send a comment with a return email address to any post on the blog and you'll get a return email with the attachment. If, after you have read the paper, you want to comment, then the comments should be put on this blog entry.
The pre-earth life did not just consist of spirits who were born to a single set of heavenly parents, living happily before coming here, followed by a rebellion led by an older brother. It was far more complex than that. There were those who had exalted themselves before they were born. The definition of exaltation is given in D&C 132. Joseph Smith had the definition of exaltation, as well as the Book of Abraham, when he made the remark. He knew that to be exalted required they be sealed in a marriage.
There were those who were "exalted" and who are called "Gods" in Abraham 4. The wording of the scripture is set out in detail and explained in detail in the paper you can get if you ask. You read that to finish off the missing pre-earth gap in Alma's teaching.
The word "Elohim" is plural. It is plural for reasons explained in the paper.
As I have said in a comment on the Alma 13 materials, I do not think that deep doctrine is what is covered in the caution to not "cast pearls before swine." I think that comment is reserved only to ordinances. Those are to be kept from being profaned. Deep doctrine is meant to be preached, proclaimed and understood. Without it, men's souls are not saved. And by "men's souls" I mean mankind, men and women. All must hear the fullness and be offered it in order to make this life meaningful and fulfill its purpose. When the doctrine is ignored or suppressed, then those who had a responsibility to proclaim it will be damned for their refusal to sound the alarm.
As I have said in a comment on the Alma 13 materials, I do not think that deep doctrine is what is covered in the caution to not "cast pearls before swine." I think that comment is reserved only to ordinances. Those are to be kept from being profaned. Deep doctrine is meant to be preached, proclaimed and understood. Without it, men's souls are not saved. And by "men's souls" I mean mankind, men and women. All must hear the fullness and be offered it in order to make this life meaningful and fulfill its purpose. When the doctrine is ignored or suppressed, then those who had a responsibility to proclaim it will be damned for their refusal to sound the alarm.
Generally the gentiles are expected in the prophecies to reject the fullness of the Gospel and walk away from it. Therefore, as a gentile, you should be concerned that you do not.
Because we need to understand our precarious and limited opportunity as gentiles, I am going to move to Christ's words in 3 Nephi Chapter 16, beginning at verse 7. That will be the next series of posts.
I guess I don't see the importance of knowing one's pre-earth status when the risks of mortality are unconditional. I can see some pride popping up with those who may think to themselves, "I was a god before! No wonder ... (this or that) ... No wonder my wife does not understand me... no wonder my ward does not appreciate me, etc. etc."
ReplyDeleteThere is a reason for the veil. My pre-earth status is irrelevant as far as I am concerned. All are now on equal footing with equal opportunity for exaltation or damnation.
Anonymous,
ReplyDeleteJust a thought... If you were a God before this life, your wife would have been a Goddess, for you can only become a God together, so instead of looking down on your wife, such knowledge may help you see her in a higher light.
I know that many of us made covenants to our spouse & God in the life before, to do certain things, like save our spouse & children if they need it.
How unthinkable to get back to heaven & not have kept those covenants & to have to watch our spouse or children doomed to a painful eternity alone in a lower kingdom because we were not valiant to our covenants we made there or here to help them like we promised.
In one sense it does not matter at all. That is, once you are in mortality the challenge and responsibility is exactly the same for everyone here. We all must get back on the same terms and same requirements. Therefore nothing which went before matters.
ReplyDeleteIn another sense it matters a great deal. Without altering the burden we have to follow the Gospel of Christ, we are permitted to understand context, understand a greater setting and a more distant view of just how long, how great and how involved the salvation of men's souls truly is as an eternal commitment from those who love us.
We appreciate the condescension of Christ. We need it to return. However, there were others such as Abraham who also condescended. Christ rescued Abraham, to be sure. But Abraham's role and condescension, Abraham's love and generosity, are also reason to take particular note and have gratitude.
This greater context would only make a fool proud. It would make a wise soul grateful and humbled. I write for wisdom's sake. I cannot, however, prevent fools from also reading what I make publicly available
Denver,
ReplyDeleteYou clarified your views here where before both in your book and the paper you stated otherwise. This statement to me is correct and corresponds with the mysteries pertaining to exaltation that Joseph felt open to discuss. thank you.
BTW, I agree and had come to the same conclusion as written in your paper. It is quite possible that the 144k that have come to rescue the earth were among those who exalted themselves to be Gods before the foundation of this earth.
What appears to be a dismissal of the fullness of the priesthood doctrine since the days of Joseph is quite disturbing to those who depend upon that doctrine in this life, among whom are those who were Gods before this life. That is for those who desire to see Him "again in the flesh" the dismissal of this doctrine prevents, for a time, their progression.
Deep doctrine is meant to be preached, proclaimed and understood. Without it, men's souls are not saved. And by "men's souls" I mean mankind, men and women. All must hear the fullness and be offered it in order to make this life meaningful and fulfill its purpose. When the doctrine is ignored or suppressed, then those who had a responsibility to proclaim it will be damned for their refusal to sound the alarm.
Anonymous#2 says:
ReplyDelete"How unthinkable to get back to heaven & not have kept those covenants & to have to watch our spouse or children doomed to a painful eternity alone in a lower kingdom because we were not valiant to our covenants we made there or here to help them like we promised."
I don't believe in this. I don't believe another soul will be damned to hell because I choose unrighteousness. Wouldn't that make God utterly unjust? "Good luck with that husband of yours... if he screws up you realize you're doomed to a lower kingdom for eternity, right?" This Saturday's Warrior mindset has always been a mystery to me. Can I then blame my sins and shortcomings on my ex-spouse who was unfaithful, excommunicated and has no desire for the things of God? I don't think so.
Denver, I can see your point as far as perspective goes.
-Anonymous#1
I think Bullock was the best scribe..
ReplyDeleteBrother and Sister Snuffer, could you please clarify your position regarding comments and questions from readers of your blog.
ReplyDeleteFor example, if a follower of your blog speculates about a gospel principle, do you only post that comment if you know the speculation to be true?
Do you ever post commentary which you know to be false?
If a comment contains both truth and error, will you post such a comment?
Can we infer that if you post a follower's comment that you see merit in that comment?
Do you want questions?
Thanks very much for your efforts with this blog.
Anonymous said...
ReplyDeleteI don't believe in this. I don't believe another soul will be damned to hell because I choose unrighteousness.
That's an interesting point, but what about the Savior? Couldn't he at any time have faltered and the whole Plan would have been frustrated and all of us damned?
Then again, he DID fulfill His mission. I think that is telling us something.
Doug
Doug,
ReplyDeleteNo, He could not have failed. Otherwise He would cease to be God. Can God lie? No, otherwise He would cease to be God. We WILL provide a Savior for you.
Which ... if you might pardon my bluntness and allow me to cut to the chase as I see it...
How can ANY God cease to be God? If some of *us* were Gods once and now are obviously not Gods... what precedent are we setting? Maybe at some point ahead God Himself will also cease to be God? Is there backsliding once you attain Godhood? How does someone cease to be a God? Sin? Lie? Is there some kind of cyclical existence of God, not god, God, not god...?
-Anon#1
There's a comment from the Moderator early on in which it was explained that the comments are not selected based upon doctrinal accuracy. They are just comments. I don't vouch for their truthfulness. Sometimes a comment is worth considering, even if it is rejected by the reader. I only put into a post what I believe or know to be true.
ReplyDeleteThere are a lot of questions which don't get put up on the blog, but produce answers which restate the question and then respond. That is an often-occurring event, if you read from the beginning of the blog to the present. Some later posts are driven by earlier discussions or comments. Therefore, some of the later things are best understood by reading the blog from the start forward chronologically.
Personal comments or inappropriate praise is not put up, or if my wife puts it up I will ask her to later take it down. Some have praise (which I dislike) but also have some other important comment and make it onto the blog--as a result of which I grit my teeth and defer to my wife, who is the one mechanically maintaining the blog. If not for her efforts, the blog wouldn't exist. I don't have time to do it--apart from writing the posts which she then puts up.
It is my wife, by the way, who always puts in the links.
Anonymous #1,
ReplyDeleteWe will not miss out on any blessings, like Exaltation, because our spouse was unrighteous IF we earned it. I was only talking about saving our unrighteous spouse & children by keeping our marriage covenants & not remarrying, no matter what they do, even from a safe distance if we must.
In the next life an unrighteous spouse will repent & be eternally greatful that you made the sacrifice to save them to the Celestial Kingdom with you, especially when they didn't earn it for themselves. Otherwise they are doomed to go to the lower kingdom they deserved.
Though we may not think so now, it will matter to us at that point that we can't save them, if we lost the power to do so cause we broke our covenants to them, cause they broke theirs to us.
Anonymous #2
Anon#2,
ReplyDeleteI guess where we part ways is the idea that we can save someone else. I don't believe we can.
I do agree with you that we keep the faith no matter what occurs- someone else's sin is never justification to sin ourselves.
-Anon#1
For anonymous #5's (at 2:15pm) benefit, the comment moderator's post Denver refers to can be found at http://denversnuffer.blogspot.com/2010/04/moderator-comment.html which begins thus:
ReplyDelete"Comments, when posted, are posted as written. We do not vouch for their accuracy, their doctrinal soundness or anything else."
I have been pondering about this since you pointed it out.
ReplyDeleteIn D&C 19: 19 where Christ explains His suffering, and He says "and finished my preparations unto the children of men" which you explained that the atonement is on going....
What I am not connecting is that in order for these gods to become gods they had to
1. have the exceeding faith
2. Good works
3. Having chosen good over evil
and had a preparatory redemption. which in vs 5 is "being in and through the atonement of the Only Begotten Son, who was PREPARED--
So how was that Prep Redemption made/done? In the D&C vs when He says he "Finished" His Preparations- was there part of the atonement done in the pre-existence? and then He finished them here? Or has part of it always existed?
Maybe my brain is on overload and I am getting everything all mixed up!
Dear Pondering, This is just my opinion -- The scriptures seem to imply that the Atonement has always applied, even before it was performed in the Meridian of Time. This had to be the case in order for those who lived before Christ was born to be able to repent and be forgiven and even Redeemed. We know from Ether 12:19 that many people even among the Jaredites (so way back in time) were Redeemed and entered into the rest of the Lord. So the Atonement could have applied to us even in the pre-mortal existence. (Just my opinon.)
ReplyDeleteKisi thank you for your comment. That is my opinion as well, but it is nice to hear others...Thank you!
ReplyDelete