Wednesday, September 15, 2010

3 Nephi 20: 12

3 Nephi 20: 12:

"And verily, verily, I say unto you, that when they shall be fulfilled then is the fulfilling of the covenant which the Father hath made unto his people, O house of Israel."
Isaiah's prophecies concerning the Israelite covenant will happen at the same time as the fulfillment of the covenants for the Nephite remnant. So things will develop simultaneously for all the chosen people. Not just locally, but globally.
Notice the reference to the "Father" and to "His people." Why is it the "Father's people" in this scripture? What significance is there to the covenant being fulfilled for the Father's people? Are they different from others? Can others have a covenant with Christ? Why is it the Father's people who will see the fulfillment of their covenants in this final, winding up of history?
How are "O house of Israel" and the "Father's people" related? Are they the same? Why or why not?
Why would all covenants come to a fulfillment at the same time? What is there of general historical development which requires all of these to be fulfilled simultaneously?
How would you prepare for the time when the fulfillment of all the covenants are to occur? Is there some kind of storage you should be assembling? What about things that put "oil" in a "lamp?" How would you go about getting that put together?
If the judgments of God will begin on His own house (D&C 112: 24-26), then how do you prepare to avoid that judgment?

There is an upside to every prophecy, even in those predicting calamity. The upside consists in two things: First, avoiding the judgment by being prepared for it. (D&C 38: 30.) Second, recognizing it so as to not be alarmed or lose faith because of it. (D&C 1: 3.)

When you see the distresses which are to come, recognize them as signs given by the Lord and take comfort. (Luke 21: 8-13.)
Christ uses Isaiah as His source because Isaiah was inspired in what he wrote. We also have a record of his prophecy. Therefore, the Lord could speak in the first person and have us quote Him. However, He pays tribute to His own prophet by quoting the words of Isaiah. This is meekness indeed. Our Lord is not and never has been prideful. He is meek, and willing to let others have credit, share in triumph, and be treated as equals. How unlike Him are the gentile leaders who love to lord it over one another, holding each other as subservients. Christ, however, made Himself a servant of all. (Mark 10: 42-44.) He puts that same meekness on display again here, as he quotes from Isaiah. This shows the Lord's respect for Isaiah.
Interesting the things which become apparent the closer you look at our Lord. Interesting how much the Book of Mormon adds to the picture of our Lord. What a great volume of scripture we have been given.
Well, back then to our main topic...


  1. meek

    gentle, mild, humble, submissive, tame, soft, modest

  2. The "Father's people" I'm assuming would be those faithful people who do not (yet) believe in Jesus Christ. I don't know what kind of storage we could assemble to prepare for that - the notion seems absurd. Are you saying our preparations lean toward the absurd, those who make "physical" preps that is?

    The ten virgins parable is explained very well (imo) in the D&C. Are you looking at something more than that explanation?

  3. Denver said: "Why would all covenants come to a fulfillment at the same time? What is there of general historical development which requires all of these to be fulfilled simultaneously?

    If it is simultaneous, then it would need to be a global event. Even political occurrences (ie, wars) are not all-encompassing. The greatest war the world has known (WWII), left many pockets of unaffected people throughout the world. So this narrows it to only a natural event... one that happens to the earth or within it (or both), so that the whole human race can see or experience it at the same time.

  4. I also love how when Christ appeared to the Nephites his first words were "I am Jesus Christ" (He first must give simple identification of Himself) "whom the prophets testified should come into the world"; but then immediately gives thanks and recognition to His servants the prophets before continuing on about who he is. I can sense the Love that He and His servants had for each other just by this simple act of gratitude and meekness. I hope I can become like Him in treating people, especially those who have served me, with this type of gratitude.

  5. @Anonymous 7:45 AM

    "I don't know what kind of storage we could assemble to prepare for that - the notion seems absurd."

    The notion of building an ark in Noah's day was also absurd to everyone but Noah and his family. Modern prophets have compared certain preparations to boarding the ark.

    Now about your Ten Virgins comment, it is only referenced directly in D&C 45:56-59. The most relevant parts about your post are verses 56-57, where it says:

    56 And at that day, when I shall come in my glory, shall the parable be fulfilled which I spake concerning the ten virgins.
    57 For they that are wise and have received the truth, and have taken the Holy Spirit for their guide, and have not been deceived—verily I say unto you, they shall not be hewn down and cast into the fire, but shall abide the day.

    Could not the Holy Spirit guide the ten virgins to make the physical preparations to "board the ark," so to speak? I always thought that one of the purposes of the Holy Spirit was to guide us against physical danger if our time on Earth was not yet finished. Members of my family are still in mortality because of strong promptings given at such critical moments.

  6. @Anonymous 9:22 AM

    Why would it need to be a single event? Might it not be multiple events happening simultaneously? Could it be a mix of political disasters, other man-made disasters, and natural disasters? Could it be that we are already in the beginning of the world-wide event(s)?

  7. These are all very good questions. Unfortunately I don't have the answer to most of them and I don't think that Denver ever comes back to discuss the answers. I'm sure that he knows the answers or he wouldn't ask the questions. That's the way attorneys work ya know. I'm very new to this blog. So is this the way it always works - Denver asks a lot of questions that he thinks you should know the answer to and then leaves you hanging if you don't? Oh well, I don't know any less than I did before, I just have more questions that I don't have the answer to.

  8. Anon 10:49...

    Denver occasionally answers one of the posts but generally not. (I think he's busy.) If something is very important to me personally I tend to ignore the "comments" because some are so in left field that they become distracting. I think all the best learning happens between ourselves and the Lord, although others can provide good questions, as you said.

  9. I think the point of asking the questions is to get people to study, ponder, and pray for themselves. The point is for people to prepare enough spiritually that they know what to do to prepare themselves physically.

    Sometimes, the answers are different for people in different situations. Some specifics that you may need to do to prepare may be different than some specifics that I may need to do to prepare because your situation may be different from my situation.

    The Lord wanted us to search out the answers, not be spoon-fed. This is an important part of our spiritual development to become prepared for Christ's return.

  10. Man, I prepare in every way possible, spiritually, self preparedness... I'm an all out, serious kind of guy I guess.

  11. Of course we all have a room full of wheat (I assume we (those of us reading this blog) are at least at that level of obedience.

    But, KNOWING GOD, that's what all of Denver's books and this whole blog is leading us to. Denver seems to be pleading, begging, and even smacking us around to get us to "get it." A basement full of MREs and water purifiers are nothing compared to that!

    To anon 10:49. I know how you feel. I've thought if I was in Denver's ward I'd grab him every Sunday and go through my list of questions. (Poor guy, I'm sure he deals with that on a regular basis.) However, because he doesn't answer our questions, it has forced me to put the Lord to the test and ask myself. It's a lot more work, surely, but the rewards are infinately greater. It helps to remember the butterfly who was assisted in freeing himself from the cocoon...

  12. I have been trying to catch up by reading past comments simultaneously with current comments so I hope I'm not speaking out of turn or getting ahead of things. This chapter is heading toward the Savior's commentary on what I term "The Moses Prophecy" cited in 3 Nephi 20:20-23 (and compare to D&C 1:8-14.) The passage in 3 Nephi 20 provides a macro view of the prophecy and 3 Nephi 21 explains the micro view. The key to understanding the prophecy is in D&C 1 where the Lord broadens the interpretation of the prophecy beyond Himself to include His servants ("whether by my voice or the voice of my servants it is the same", D&C 1:14 & 38)and then offers the fulfillment in 3 Nephi 21.

  13. Regarding the couple of comments referencing spiritual and temporal preparedness.

    I am one that believes the Lord said that all things temporal are spiritual. Preparation in one area, does not NEED to negate preparation in the other. Temporal preparation does not mean you are trusting in the arm of the flesh(although for some it can or can be a distraction, too) me it means you are taking the Lord at His word.

    The example of Noah and the ark was excellent...another of my favorites is Joseph of Egypt. The Lord has the power and might that he could've provided for Jacob and his sons He did in many scriptural examples...but he also often requires the sweat of our brow and hard work under the guidance of the spirit to ultimately bless us, also. The Nephites in 3rd Nephi that gathered together in one body to protect themselves against their enemies for 7 years is another example. This was not too long before the coming of the Lord to the Americas. I believe in patterns. I do not believe temporal preparedness means I am shirking spiritual preparedness.

    In fact, I am one that has read all six of Denver's books and read EVERY word of this blog from the beginning. Also, one that has studied entering into the presence of the Lord seriously for many many years. Like most of you, I assume, I am also probably one of the most prepared people I know. My family has gone WELL beyond what is generally expected in temporal/financial responsibility, at great sacrifice)...I would like to add that in April I fasted for many days concerning whether to put any more efforts and LIMITED resources into temporal preparation (since our prep was MORE than asked of already) or should I be done and JUST focus on my spiritual welfare...filling my lamp, for I hunger after this "knowledge" of the Lord as all of you do.

    After three days I had decided that I would indeed set aside any further temporal preparations as I had fulfilled every aspect of obedience in that area that any prophet had asked of us and then some. My husband and I concurred and went to the Lord with our final decision seeking His confirmation that we focus solely on spiritual matters...barring a miraculous sign, we felt confident we had done enough. I cannot give the details...but unexpectedly, on the morning of the 4th day, we indeed received a miraculous and undeniable sign opposite of the decision we had determined to follow. I couldn't believe it!!! We were UNDENIABLY given the information that we should do yet more.

    I don't know why,but I know I would be acting in outright disobedience if we do not press forward with some major instructions that are definitely not within the norm. Strangely, or perhaps not so strangely, it comes at a time that I am more in line with the spirit and seeking the Lord than ever.

    Just wanted to share that anonymously as my personal witness that there may be some temporal prep involved that truly are spiritual at root and have nothing to do with putting our security in anyone but Christ.

  14. Food will not save you, God will send manna if he needs to. Following the spirit is our only hope. Every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God. The iron rod is the WORD of God. It is not what the prophet says, it is what the spirit says through him, to you that matters. Physical, spiritual preperations blah blah blah. A relationship with Christ through following the spirit is all that matters. So we can be the Father's people. So we can help others to Christ.

  15. @Anonymous 10:23 PM

    An interesting sentiment, especially since an earlier poster stated out right that the Spirit directed them to get even more although they have already gone a second mile and possibly a third or fourth mile. While that is not what everyone may need to do, it is what they were directed to do. I have had similar confirmations for my situation.

    One simple question, could a similar idea have been held by some of Noah's contemporaries? What if they had said, "A boat won't save you, only being good and spiritual will save you. Physical preparations, blah blah, blah." (see see Moses 8:21) After I read this, Noah's contemporaries obviously thought they were righteous by calling themselves "the sons of God."

    My point, and others have stated likewise, that following the spirit has caused them to gather and store food and make other physical preparations. The preparations alone are not enough. On the other hand, developing a relationship with Christ and then ignoring his commands is spiritual suicide. The only possible conclusion is that (1) develop a spiritual relationship, and, (2) do what the Spirit tells you what to do.

    For most people I know, they believe the prophets when they tell you to gather food because the Spirit told them that it was Truth.

  16. Thank you B. You've said it nicely.... :)

  17. Donald, may I second the "you've said it nicely" to B.

    anon of Sept 15, 8:49
    Thank you for sharing and for you good example to us all. I have a question regarding your extended fast, as I have often contemplated fasting longer than the normal 24 hrs. Do you drink water when your fast goes longer than 24 hrs? Do you have anything at all, and if so, at what point?


  18. Ic,

    In answer to your question about my fasting for four days...

    I have a very difficult time fasting...very small framed, fast metabolism, have to eat frequently. Normally, I just do the 24 hour fast. Once before I did a 3 day fast where I drank water only...couldn't have made it otherwise.

    This fast was not really something in the norm because I did it when I had a two-month old newborn, so I was breastfeeding and unable to do a normal fast. But the spirit was pressing hard on me and I needed immediate guidance and I wanted a real answer and I wanted an answer that was have no doubts that the Lord was speaking to me. I wanted to put this "asking and receiving" to the test, so to speak, yet I wasn't in a position that a normal fast was possible. So, after having read previously in Denver's writings about restricting ones' intake as a means of more frequently engaging in the spirit of fast, I contemplated what offering of sacrifice I could make that the Lord would acknowledge as a 'true and substantial" sacrifice on my part to show my true willingness to submit to Him in order to receive an answer. I couldn't really reduce calorie intake or water due to the breastfeeding, so I made some dietary sacrifices/eliminations that were HUGE for me and that I had never before been able to accomplish with sheer willpower. So in a sense, I guess I got off easy, but the reality was, the Lord knew my intent, desire, sacrifice and prior capacities and He did accept my offering. Sorry that doesn't help with someone in a "normal" physical situation. Maybe this will give someone else a help, though, that has some physical limitations to what they can do with fasting, though.

  19. The Lord would not have led a wicked man to build a boat. I think if you read my words I did not argue or attack any one.Just bored with the same old argument.

  20. I read through anonymous' post and have come to the conclusion that everybody is saying the same thing. Some people are led by the spirit to prepare spiritually, where God will prepare manna for them and others are commanded to prepare more physically. But the important thing is that everybody is led by the spirit. I think what anonymous was trying to say was that all the preparation, we make ourselves, whether we read out scriptures or pray , because we feel it will get us closer to God (which it will) but only if we put in the effort. If we are just going through the motions of spiritually preparing and do not follow the spirit then it availeth nothing. When we allow ourselves to be led by the spirit we will always be where we need to be and as prepared as we need to be. The Prophet leads the church as a whole and gives knowledge and thoughts to the collective group of saints. Just because he says one thing to all, may not necessarily be what is right for everyone. We all have our purpose in God, so it is for the spirit to guide us, if we truly want to be heirs of the kingdom.

  21. Denver,

    After you post the scripture verse, you spend the next several paragraphs asking questions. In particular, the questions you ask in the second, third and fourth paragraphs I do not know the answers to in a meaningful way. I would like to know them.

    You always tell us to "ask" God. I do.

    You also point out in The Second Comforter, that He expects us to study His words and know our scriptures and that he isn't going to give us further "revelation" on things that are already to be found in existing scripture.

    Therein lies my dilema....I'm not sure when I am supposed to be asking God directly for information, or when it's something I'm supposed to be studying out to see where the message is inconspicuously sitting right within His revealed word in front of my blind eyes.

    My problem is that I am seeing that many things have been going right over my head all these years and without you pointing them out, I would never see them on my own. I'm not sure how to put the pieces together to answer these questions about the Father and the covenant being fulfilled that you pose. I think I lack some learning necessary to have them jump out at me when I study...I'm not even sure where to begin looking to tell you the truth.

    Am I wrong to be asking the Lord? Is that jumping the gun? Should I be asking Him to lead me to where in the scriptures I can come to understand this? This whole concept of asking and receiving has me wondering at what point in my search to "know" Him does my asking takes on the form learned in sacred places. When do I know that is needed?...from clear inspiration that is undeniably from Him directing me to do so? When I get brave enough or want an answer bad enough? On certain subjects only? On things that cannot be already answered in existing scripture only? You probably can't answer this, but it is actually what I am trying to get Him to answer for me right now.

  22. Anon 6:54

    Your answer makes perfect sense and is very helpful. Thank You!

  23. @Karen

    Search, ponder, and pray. Be diligent in reading the scriptures. God will give to you that which you need most at the appropriate time. Have faith that you will eventually understand. The gospel is a very simple thing to understand on the surface but requires more learning than any other thing in Heaven or on Earth. At His will, He may also give to you knowledge to satisfy your curiosity. The questions Denver asks are designed to urge the readers to search, ponder, and pray in a meaningful way.

    Ask and ye shall receive, seek and ye shall find, knock and it shall be opened to you. If we seek knowledge, we should humbly and prayerfully search for it and ask for it. Ask for help to know. If it is a more urgent problem, fast (knock) to know. Do not be afraid to ask God directly, He is our loving and omniscient father that will lead us to the knowledge in a way that will benefit us most, often line upon line, precept upon precept, here a little and there a little.

    If things go over your head, it could be because of several reasons. Only you can know all of the reasons and, if you don't know, only God can reveal them to you. Be truly worthy to enter the temple. Search, ponder, and pray. Attend the temple often, if you can. Many things are taught in the temple that only become apparent in the scriptures if you have first learned in the temple.

    Pray always over all things. Ask the Lord for whatever ye stand in need. It is the devil that teaches a person not to pray. You can never be wrong in asking the Lord and praying to Him.

    The form of prayer learned in sacred places (e.g. the temple) is different than a personal or regular group prayer. Do not worry about offending by praying. The sacred form of prayer spoken of is different enough that you will not accidentally do it in your own personal and group prayers.

    For answers to questions, search, ponder, and pray. Regular prayer is sacred enough that the Spirit will commune with you as you become more in tune to the things of God. Faith. Repentance (i.e. changing your life to good). Search, ponder, and pray. These are all the critical components to further understanding and knowledge.

    This was all I feel I should tell you at this time. This I do tell you in the name of Jesus Christ. This I affirm as true, amen.

  24. B,

    Thanks for taking the time to write all of that.I really appreciate the spirit of love and testimony that you expressed.

    All of the things you mentioned: praying, asking, pondering, searching, temple worthiness, attending temple etc. are things I am very comfortable/experienced with.

    You definitely answered what I conveyed in my question. I know I can ask the Lord anything and prayer is always appropriate to ask questions of the Lord...but study is required and Denver reminds us the Lord doesn't necessarily tell us things He's already informed us of in the it's just that sometimes I wonder how many more hours of study I can put into trying to get a specific answer, when I am accumulating tens of new questions, without beginning to neglect other necessary duties. If the answer IS available through years and years of study of His words, am I expected to receive my answer only through that process of personal effort(of course while still asking in prayer). At that rate, sometimes the whole thing seems like I'll never get there. On the other hand, the Lord chastised Oliver for taking no thought save to ask(I know study and searching and pondering is required, too). I just wanted more clarity on if I am truly to expect the Lord to answer some of these questions through inspiration(prayer with ideas or thoughts flowing into my mind) or am I to await the day I finally come across it in my study and it jumps out at me. I'm sure it's a combination.

    But in truth, my prior question is rooted in a deeper question that I eluded to about the process of asking and receiving. My question coincides with the blog on Saturday, September 18(today)...but I didn't want to be the first to comment on there because of the sensitive topic.

    Denver relayed on the Sept. 18 blog how acquiring the "powers of heaven" PRECEDE the Lord's presence. Then asks what that suggest about the MANNER in which we proceed into His presence. How we experience those powers and what that power is. Last, he asks why the powers of heaven invariably precede and in turn lead to the Lord's presence.

    My real bottom line question is if this is all connected with the order of prayer. Clearly such prayer is teaching one HOW to ask and receive from the Lord. Clearly it is taught BEFORE being able to enter into His presence. Clearly it is the source of information, revelation and perhaps even power from heaven. I truly believe that at some point in my process of coming into His rest, I will indeed use the methods taught on my own. My question is really how do/will I know WHEN and for WHAT to use it.

    I know it would be far into the process of development, but is it a NEESSARY step related to acquiring the powers of heaven? Is it a key to accessing that power? I know what Brigham Young taught regarding it (past/present/future), I know from Heber C. Kimball's journal that he used it. I know people that have used it. I know it was used frequently in people's homes, wards, etc. I read the blog with the letter from Pres. Kimball and was previously aware of such. I am not new to the topic, just still trying to figure out where it fits in with me personally.

    I know this is not the forum that I can really get an answer, that's probably why my question was so vague/elementary sounding before, but that is what I am really trying to understand...plain and simple, is there a connection between the use of that form and getting certain answers...especially asking for the powers of heaven to be manifest in your life, as a necessary step in the onward progression toward entering into His presence. There must be, or it wouldn't be there.

    CM: Obviously, if this is too questionable to post, do not post it.

  25. "My question is really how do/will I know WHEN and for WHAT to use it."

    When it is time to use it, the Lord will tell you, either through His servants, the prophets, or by direct revelation.

    Think of Enoch. First, he was righteous and had righteous desires. He was then called of the Lord. He taught God's word and was an instrument to convert many. As he taught, he progressed further in light and knowledge. As he progressed, he gained power from God. Before being taken into God's presence, he could command the Earth and the elements. Eventually, Enoch and his people had progressed to a point of faith, knowledge, and power so great that the Lord could not keep them from His presence. I am sure that Enoch did not start knowing the whole path. He had faith that God was guiding him on the correct path.

    In your own life, as you have progressed in the Gospel, you have learned new things. When you were ready, you have been taught what was necessary to take the next step. This has happened the whole time. It will not be different in the future. When you are ready for the next step in your progression, the Lord will reveal it to you. Have faith and trust in Him. Humbly repent of anything you do wrong. Pray. Search the scriptures and ponder them. Rejoice and be happy with what the Lord has given you while seeking to become better at doing His will. This is the key. Put the Lord's will first and bend your own will to the Lord's desires in all things. This is how the Lord will bless you and help you progress. He will give you knowledge about the Gospel as you need it and as you progress (line upon line, precept upon precept).

    In some cases, the Lord will not tell you what to do. Sometimes, He wants you to choose for yourself. It could be that you need to learn something and this is the best way for you to learn it. It might be that it is not important what you choose and you should choose what you want and ask the Lord help in obtaining what you choose. At these times, use your best judgment to determine what you should do.

    This I tell you, not by any command or revelation from the Spirit, but as a brother trying my best and learning from my own experiences and the experiences of others.

  26. Karen, I wonder if there are sacred letters in the Gospel. Remember when the Jews were surprised Jesus knew letters: "How knoweth this man letters, being so young?" Letters make up words. Words in situations have context and meaning. The commandments used to be called "words" by the Jews. The Ten Commandments would thus be the "Ten Words". It seems Moses broke the tablets that spelled out the words in a higher way. Could those letters have been restored through Joseph Smith in a sacred way?

    In answer to your question about prayer, I wonder if you have to first understand what you are saying before you can say it. Meaning, maybe we must learn to speak with the tongue or language of angels. We have to first learn our ABC's, if you will.

    Obviously, if the wicked portion of the Jews knew these letters, it did them no good. Is there some oral tradition or non-written expression of these letters that they tapped into with the wrong intent, but nevertheless showing there is a way to learn these things? And then does Jesus' example show that He learned them independently through revelation, even if the hierarchy of His day made it difficult for Him to learn by their methods?

  27. B and Zang,

    Thanks for addressing my comments. You are absolutely right, the Lord has always taught me the next thing as I have been ready. I have marveled at that over and over in my life and always felt so much love from Him because I can see Him placing pieces of information in my path that I have desired to know and I've seen Him prepare me to know things. When I am ready for the next step, I do believe that the Lord will manifest that to me. The thought of seeking to become better at doing His will really is key. I really need to press forward in heeding "the words of Christ will tell ye all things what ye should do" and "receive the Holy Ghost, it will show unto you all things what ye should do." Asking for, being worthy of, listening for, recognizing and identifying the word of the Lord to me is really what I need to focus on and all things will fall into place in due course.

    Thanks for both of your ideas.

  28. Karen, in my opinion, the temple symbols are more mysterious to all members than they ought to be, even on first time endowments. Perhaps that is a way to protect them from the evil that is allowed into the temple, but either way, members have no basis on which to begin to understand or think that certain symbols have any meaning at all, but we think they are just a fancy dance we need to give the angels.

    Apostles have tried to hint mildly in conference about the ancient nature of the ceremony, and they are right. Additionally, we need a better general introduction to ways to think about them. It doesn't need to remain so elusive for us.

    Principles that should be taught in all Temple Prep courses, in my opinion, should be:

    1. The temple uses sign language...sign language of the Lord's language.

    2. The sign language employed is made up of sacred letters with scriptural meanings, that when strung together make sacred words rich with meaning.

    3. You will be told in the temple that when you learn the personal application of these words, you should keep it sacred. This is important because you will understand the nature of God making a covenant with you personally through these symbols as He did with Abraham personally. It will bring great power into your life.

    The application of the words to your life is what is sacred, the words themselves are holy, but the language itself shouldn't be as secret as we make it out to be now. We have made the language so secret we as a people don't even know there are words in the temple anymore. The early Saints studied Hebrew and tried to have the Adamic language revealed to them. A three year old should be able to understand the words of the temple. We have desired things we can't understand, and turned simple things into complicated things through cover-up.

    If Adam spoke a language that is called "Priesthood" then going to the temple would've been plain to understand in his language. We should be fluent in daily life of the language employed so when we go to the temple we will know what is being said in sign language and which words in the language fit where in importance. That is the gift. If we don't know the language, the temple becomes vain repetition as if we are reading French without knowing a lick of its meaning.

    What a stretch we are required to make to receive revelation about the temple without knowing what revelation to get! I believe we should ask what the letters in the Adamic alphabet are and what they mean. There is still a long way to go in understanding sacred things after knowing that. My parent's generation of Saints apparently voted out all references to the Adamic language in our endowment because it was too "weird" for them and new converts. Pity.

    Denver, if you think this is too much to post, you can leave it off.


  29. Here is one example of how letters can have significance:

    The letter "L" in our language is closer to the older Hebrew script for it. It is called "Lamed". The current Hebrew Lamed has degenerated into something curly when originally it was a right angle.

    "Lamed" stands for discipleship.

    If you have two letters together, the emphasis of characteristics of the letter's meaning becomes heightened.

    Therefore, two "L's" ... LL ... could mean two facets of discipleship to show emphasis, such as honor and precision.

    There is a Hebrew word "Palal" which means "worship" or "praise". The letter "P", or "Pay" as it is called in Hebrew, has a soft form called "Fay" (see our use of "ph" in "phone"). It is connected to prayer in meaning. If you have a word "lal" for instance, without the "pa", it could denote the silent prayer in praise. Phalal sounds very close to a Christmas worship song where we sing "Fa la la la la, la la la la" and to the French use of "Ooh la la".

    The connection between honor and precision in discipleship and where our mind is focused secretly as the definition of worship or praise is quite instructive.

    Who do we follow with exactness today? Is it God?

  30. Secret Prayer

    “144: Secret Prayer,” Hymns of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, no. 144


    1. There is an hour of peace and rest,
    Unmarred by earthly care;
    ’Tis when before the Lord I go
    And kneel in secret prayer.

    May my heart be turned to pray,
    Pray in secret day by day,
    That this boon to mortals giv’n
    May unite my soul with heav’n.

    2. The straight and narrow way to heav’n,
    Where angels bright and fair
    Are singing to God’s praise, is found
    Thru constant secret prayer.

    3. When sailing on life’s stormy sea,
    ’Mid billows of despair,
    ’Tis solace to my soul to know
    God hears my secret prayer.

    4. When thorns are strewn along my path,
    And foes my feet ensnare,
    My Savior to my aid will come,
    If sought in secret prayer.

    Text and music: Hans Henry Petersen, 1835–1909

    Matthew 6:6

    Alma 33:3–11

  31. Karen (et al),

    This is an interesting book by David Cohen if you have not already read it:

    I've lost contact with David Cohen. Does anybody know where he is these days? The last time I communicated with him he was on his way to Europe with Israel as his ultimate destination.

  32. Thanks Zang.

    You have opened up a whole new line of reasoning for me and several new languages to learn.

    Did your thinking here come from personal revelation on the subject, or is there somewhere else I could go to gain more information?



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