Tuesday, May 18, 2010

Debate is not necessary

I am not trying to make my mind up about Mormonism or The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.  I have long ago sorted out my views.  They are not going to change.

Although my views are explained in this blog, I do not debate them.  You are welcome to have contrary views, to disagree and to think I am altogether incorrect.  But you shouldn't waste the effort to try and persuade me to change my own view.

My testimony of Christ is informed both by what I have studied and what I have witnessed.  It has taken decades of devotion in study and living to obtain a stable, firm view of the Lord and His role in my life.  No one should expect to acquire an unchanging view of the Lord without paying a significant price in their time and effort.  I can try to help, give advice and make suggestions.   I can explain my views.  But, in the end, every person must determine for themselves what Christ means and how they intend to relate to Him.

I believe the truth exists independent of your view or my view.  Just because someone believes a false notion does not make it so.  Eventually we will all come into agreement by the things which we experience.  For most of the world, that will be some time after they are dead.

Debate is not necessary.  And I am just a lay member of the Church, without any reason for you to consider what I have to say.  Therefore, you ought to measure my views against the scriptures and the Spirit, and let the truth be the single standard for deciding to accept something.

I quoted a few ideas from Mark Twain in a post a while back.  You ought to re-read them if you don't remember them.  They were chosen with some care.  They summarize ideas which I believe to be important.


  1. I hope it wasn't my recent comment I sent that prompted this response (which isn't posted yet), but I'm willing to admit I could've phrased it differently. I'm trying to mold my views, not yours, and your post makes me think I should've asked you to explain what you meant better by "you never outgrow the programs of the Church". I'm trying to synthesize what you said there with what you said about the 10 lepers, not challenge your beliefs. I have a problem with semantics from growing up among a disbelieving people, but I have a believing heart. I love all the programs of the Church, but I have loved ones that don't. I'm trying to figure out what to teach by the Spirit and with some confirmations from friends like yourself with experience. Thanks for all you do.

  2. Like it or not, my friend, I think the Lord has made you a modern-day Abinidi (the lay-member part, and hopefully not the martyr part ;-) and I believe there are more with a testimony like yours, just not all public. I love the Church and its place, and if every member were doing their duty as outlined in the scriptures, we'd have a lot more similar testimonies. There is a hunger out there, though. You don't need to post this comment if you don't want to.

  3. Hunger is an understatement – we are famished, anemic and emaciated from too much of the wrong diet!

  4. Zang: No this had nothing to do with you or your posts. I write something and my wife will put it up sometimes days later. This was written a while back and had nothing to do with any comment you have ever made.

    There are some who want to debate because they think that's what "blogging" is all about. I'm not into that. I'm just trying to clarify why I respond as I do. Sometimes I just let a comment go, even though I completely disagree with what is said. But I think my wife put something up from the "Moderator" a while back saying that comments have nothing to do with my views.

    I rather like what you've said on the blog and have used questions you've written as a basis for writing posts.

  5. A Buddhist scholar went to visit an old and respected monk to discuss Buddhism.

    The monk invited the scholar in and they sat down. While the monk prepared tea the scholar immediately began to expound upon all he had learned about Buddhism at the university. On and on he went while the old monk quietly listened and prepared the tea.

    When the tea was ready, the scholar continued to speak even as the old monk poured the tea. Suddenly, the scholar stopped and jumped up as he realized that tea was pouring down onto his leg. The old monk had filled the scholar’s cup and was continuing to pour tea into his already full cup.

    The scholar shouted, “You old fool. What are you thinking?”

    The old monk calmly replied, “A cup that is already full has no room to receive.”

  6. Zang Fam,
    Do you like the singles program, the correlation committee, the build up babylon in the city creek speculation with church funds department, the discounts and free dinners church "authorities" or employees receive to dine in fine and expensive dining halls on church property? Just some quick ones

  7. Anonymous- I refer you to the contents of Denvers post here. My sentiments are the same on this one. I will say that I may like things for different reasons than I used to, and I also appreciate that when advertising a cause, bad press is also good press. The degree of legitimacy of the claims doesn't have much bearings on how I feel about Mormons as a group of people. I may be disappointed from time to time, but I'm also willing to suspend judgement even on a program to see what the repercussions will be even years after a program may be gone. I have cast my lot with the Mormons and so I am one, for good or ill, with all the programs to boot. I am also an American and proud to sustain a President of the US, even if he is personally a socialist and I pray every day for the proper end to some of the decisions, I'm still patriotic. As strong as my personal convictions may be, I don't feel I've been called to make a personal rebellion against either institution or even stop supporting them yet. They are not yet as depraved as the Nephites organizationally, whom Mormon upheld in damned endeavors most of the time, although the cup may be reaching full in many areas. That is just to explain what I said in context, but I'm not opening things up for debate. I will likely not respond to any more comments in that vein.


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