tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3880654315943365046.post3100171902290704346..comments2023-05-18T08:46:59.064-06:00Comments on from the desk of Denver Snuffer: The traditions of men, part 1Denver Snufferhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13850530477432070456noreply@blogger.comBlogger13125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3880654315943365046.post-87060881863726985382010-05-19T16:24:30.872-06:002010-05-19T16:24:30.872-06:00I've never really fit into church culture and ...I've never really fit into church culture and remain quiet on the majority of subjects taught. The one thing that reeeally troubled me was when the primary song "follow the prophet" came out. I would simply cringe every time I heard it (still do). Don't get me wrong, I've loved all of our prophets and fully sustained them, but, some of the most powerful scriptures for me were the ones about Jesus saying "come follow me". That is what I've strived to do and teaching us to follow the prophet felt like having 2 masters. Of course when he speaks at the pulpit and I feel his words through the Holy Ghost I follow those, but those are still the words of Christ spoken through his servant. How have we made such an evil practice appear so good?<br /><br />Also, I have been blessed with some gifts of healing that I know come from the Lord and when people have had healing and word gets out, it has been stated that only men holding the priesthood can heal and all other healing is from satan and therefore I must be a witch. Wow...where do people come up with these ideas???Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3880654315943365046.post-34573279567490023832010-04-30T17:50:40.801-06:002010-04-30T17:50:40.801-06:00Hi eddiek,
I think Denver has already answered yo...Hi eddiek,<br /><br />I think Denver has already answered your question in two of his posts. He gives the history of the use of the title "Prophet" and also the history of the use of "President of the Church".<br /><br />Here's the paragraph that answers this from this post:<br /><br />"The alteration of the Presiding High Priest's status from "President" to "Prophet." From the time of Joseph Smith until 1955 the term "Prophet" was used exclusively to refer to Joseph Smith. It was changed in 1955 to apply to the living President, David O. McKay. Before then no living man was ever referred to as "Prophet" within the church, other than Joseph Smith. When the word "Prophet" was used after Joseph's death, it was understood the term meant Joseph Smith." <br /><br />But a more lengthy history of this is given in an entire post about it entitled:<br /><br />"Posted by the moderator (she thinks it important)"<br />from FRIDAY, MARCH 12, 2010.<br /><br />You've probably never heard anything but "prophet" used in your lifetime, but it wasn't always so.Kisihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03328897217815744611noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3880654315943365046.post-82968111569529701262010-04-29T19:43:18.079-06:002010-04-29T19:43:18.079-06:00I agree with Ben. The president of the church has ...I agree with Ben. The president of the church has always been referred to as prophet. Every year in general conference, the president of the church has been sustained as prophet, seer and revelator. Even in April 1880, before Pres. Taylor had been sustained as president of the church, the conference sustained the Twelve as prophets, seers and revelators. Perhaps Denver was referring to the church at times other than when the general authorities were being sustained.eddiekhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06780956059332345755noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3880654315943365046.post-41082098235210518162010-04-23T23:39:48.406-06:002010-04-23T23:39:48.406-06:00Denver, I absolutely agree with you.
The culture...Denver, I absolutely agree with you. <br /><br />The culture of the Church gives "spiritually lazy" members an excuse to not seek counsel from the Lord.<br /><br />For instance, it is a typical saying, "I'm not going to believe it unless the prophet says it from the pulpit."<br /><br />They never think that perhaps it might be wiser to simply seek a witness from the Lord whether or not something is true.Dr. Christine Princeton, D.O.https://www.blogger.com/profile/04353260924355702979noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3880654315943365046.post-699124534314734792010-04-22T18:59:08.551-06:002010-04-22T18:59:08.551-06:00What a funny example at the post office. Thanks fo...What a funny example at the post office. Thanks for sharing that. <br /><br />I need to make a correction to <br />my previous coment. I said people "can't" contemplate questions or concerns about the church... Upon further thought, I should have said "don't typically want to"Taylorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18157207426274845984noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3880654315943365046.post-66707215489489232962010-04-22T18:11:55.621-06:002010-04-22T18:11:55.621-06:00Here's a ridiculous, but actual example of the...Here's a ridiculous, but actual example of the cult of which you speak - a friend of mine was trying to get an important document sent by certified mail from the post office located in the Wilkinson Center at BYU. The student clerk was unwilling to accommodate a fairly routine request (one that my friend had done at other post offices). When the clerk refused the request, and my friend pressed for a reason, the clerk responded "Because that it how the Prophet says it should be done."Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3880654315943365046.post-38354496354035959042010-04-22T14:52:04.463-06:002010-04-22T14:52:04.463-06:00I'm intrigued again at how relevant and accura...I'm intrigued again at how relevant and accurate the blog post is today. I think I've heard every one of Denver's word for word examples of the cult of personality "weak faith" "road to apostasy" "you don't sustain the prophet due to raising questions" etc.. along with others. <br /><br />The response is exactly as this blogpost says, people are insecure and can't contemplate questions or concerns, let alone have an open discussion about them. When I've seen the topic addressed people squirm as though some crawly creature is going up their back. <br /><br />Wow. Thanks for the helpful and healthy discussion Denver. <br /><br />TaylorTaylorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18157207426274845984noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3880654315943365046.post-18866560478812056582010-04-22T10:13:49.260-06:002010-04-22T10:13:49.260-06:00I think it is our pride we should lay down when we...I think it is our pride we should lay down when we interact with church leadership but not our brain. <br /><br />Someone told me once "the Lord has a very low standard for church leadership." I think it was one of the most helpful things anyone ever told me. I look on peoples faults with charity a lot in my daily life (and should all the time) but I expected better from church leaders. I was wrong to do that. They need charity as much as anyone else and I am sure way less than I do. <br /><br />TimAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3880654315943365046.post-8521887630614985972010-04-21T22:02:09.337-06:002010-04-21T22:02:09.337-06:00Excellent analysis - I am 100% with you. It is so...Excellent analysis - I am 100% with you. It is something of a Stockholm Syndrome among many members of the Church - a kind of tunnel vision that does not allow them to step outside of themselves and either laugh or take a good hard objective look at things.....<br />It stifles personal revelation.IRAQhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18114100359845137241noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3880654315943365046.post-80547015324833595372010-04-21T19:23:27.128-06:002010-04-21T19:23:27.128-06:00I have a question, now that you've been good e...I have a question, now that you've been good enough to bring this up. This is a question that I'm actually afraid to ask -- not afraid of you or of your response -- but of ... well, you'll understand as soon as you see my question. Since you opened the door to this, I HAVE to ask this. I've been dying to ask this for years, but there's no one to ask -- except Heavenly Father, of course. And I have my opinion on what I believe His opinion is, but I'm afraid to believe myself, since my belief goes so counter to what we're "supposed to believe".<br /><br />So, do what do you believe about the notion/teaching/concept that "the Prophet will/can never lead us astray"? <br /><br />I'm not sure if this idea comes from D&C 43: 3-4, or where. <br /><br />D&C 43: 3 And this ye shall know assuredly—that there is none other appointed unto you to receive commandments and revelations until he be taken, if he abide in me.<br /> 4 But verily, verily, I say unto you, that none else shall be appointed unto this gift except it be through him; for if it be taken from him he shall not have power except to appoint another in his stead.<br /><br />Years ago, some columnist, maybe Robert Kirby (?) wrote an article describing "Gospel Doctrine", "Church Doctrine", and "Social Doctrine". The idea that "the Prophet will never lead us astray" is minimally Church Doctrine and probably at this point has been elevated to Gospel Doctrine. And maybe it's even true - ?. If the Prophet, however, is "the President", that might change things a bit. I don't know. Please comment.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3880654315943365046.post-16352922409070942592010-04-21T19:00:50.208-06:002010-04-21T19:00:50.208-06:00Denver:
Do you stay seated when President Monson e...Denver:<br />Do you stay seated when President Monson enters a room, while everyone else stands?<br /><br />...just curious.Mark Petersonnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3880654315943365046.post-63800406916098424302010-04-21T18:55:32.444-06:002010-04-21T18:55:32.444-06:00I agree that the cult of infallibility (mormons sa...I agree that the cult of infallibility (mormons say prophets are fallible but don't believe it...) can cause some problems, but as a historical note, haven't members of the 12 and the First Presidency been sustained as "Prophets, Seers and Revelators" since the time of Joseph Smith?<br /><br />It isn't a huge jump (as you say, changes are gradual) to consider the President of the Church as the "Presiding Prophet" if you will.Doxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11229489025173839494noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3880654315943365046.post-62336732055202911382010-04-21T18:38:01.033-06:002010-04-21T18:38:01.033-06:00Thank you Denver. You are a godsend.
anxious for...Thank you Denver. You are a godsend. <br /><br />anxious for 'part two'lcnoreply@blogger.com